This first-come, first-served campground is located in the Williams Fork Valley next to the Williams Fork River. Emergency Call Boxes on site, very limited cell phone coverage. Gross Reservoir is located at Forest Service Road 359 Nederland, CO 80466. Legal. View from a field along the trail: The summer weather has been beautiful lately, and I wanted to get into the foothills for a hike while all the wildflowers were still in bloom. Gross Reservoir Nederland CO 80466. Timberlake Campground boasts of being one of the finest recreational destinations in the Southeast. Surrounding the water, you will see granite outcroppings, snowy mountaintops in the distance and plenty of pine trees. By the third week in September many of the campgrounds close for the season. With over 10 miles of shoreline and awesome car-camping sites, the reservoir makes for a perfect weekend camp and boat trip. Gross Reservoir, located in Boulder County, Colorado, is owned and operated by Denver Water. The fight against Denver Water’s plan to significantly expand Gross Reservoir is not just a neighborhood issue; it effects the environmental quality of life for all of Boulder County. You can go fishing, hiking, camping, paddling and picnicking here; take out a boat, too, but no motors allowed. They can be contacted via phone at (303) 541-2500 for pricing, directions, reservations and more. Bouldering: You can find bouldering opportunities on the east side of Gross Dam Road, southeast of the water. Fuels Mitigation Work Near Gross Reservoir Designated Camping Area Begins Aug. 5. Gross Reservoir is a playground for Boulderites with fishing, canoeing, kayaking, standup paddling, camping, hiking, and bouldering. Management. Provide $1 million to the Upper Colorado River Wild and Scenic Management group to … If you’re still up for it, the views and solitude can be worth it, especially if you find your way into one of the private, little fingers of the lake. Click here if your map does not load correctly. After the Autumn Equinox on Tuesday, September 22nd, fall is officially under way. Boating at Gross Reservoir is open to the public. Hiking: There are several hiking options here. Additional facilities provided include restrooms and trash service. Gross Reservoir –. But here we are with details of our favorite point of interest in Boulder. 2 / 10. Standing 340 feet above the South Boulder Creek streambed, Gross Dam contains some 627,559 cubic yards of concrete. It serves as a combination storage and regulating facility for water that flows under the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel. You can fish, canoe, or kayak, but swimming is … Recreation map. We decided to adventure out and looked west of Boulder; we took Baseline Rd west and then turned right to ascend up Flagstaff Road. Gross Reservoir is perched at 7,500 feet above sea level, located above Boulder along the South Boulder Creek Drainage. We saw a number of car-based SUVs that made it in that way without trouble. Dispersed camping a few miles off the highway. One fun hike in this area is to take the Forsythe Canyon to the waterfall and end at the reservoir. Gross Reservoir Gross Reservoir's 11 miles of shoreline are a joy to explore. Gross Reservoir is located at Forest Service Road 359 Nederland, CO 80466. Explore lodging options in Grand Teton. Hike in Grand Teton. It’s one of the rare places to camp in the Boulder area; there are no actual campgrounds the city limits. Send Trail to Phone. As we continue to improve our trail coverage, we'd love to hear what you think and which areas to add next. You cannot camp on Denver Water’s side of the reservoir. It was just hard to believe there was so many people on a week day. Elevation. From Boulder take Baseline Rd. Hiking Project is built by hikers like you. The project is controversial, though, because it would mean removing many trees. There are no RV hookups. Magnolia is a much better way to get in. Michael Swadener camps at Gross Reservoir. Be warned – IT IS SERIOUS 4 WHEELING with 2 to 3 foot ruts, rocks and drop offs and a sign that reminds you that getting towed out will be very expensive if you get stuck. Great camping, with the best spots located along the south shoreline west of the dam. Camping fees do not include the cost of a park pass. Photo by Michael Swadener. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Get your copy at Chautauqua, the Downtown Boulder Visitor Info Center, the Boulder Chamber Center, local hotels and multiple other locations across Boulder County. Courtesy photo. … Map to Gross Reservoir Gross Reservoir is a great location for Supping Kayaking and Canoeing. The fight against Denver Water’s plan to significantly expand Gross Reservoir is not just a neighborhood issue; it effects the environmental quality of life for all of Boulder County. It’s first come, first served. Gross Reservoir — The Gross Reservoir Expansion Project will raise the height of the existing dam by 131 feet, which will allow the capacity of the reservoir, pictured, to increase by 77,000 acre-feet. See your next adventure at CampgroundTour.com! Dogs are also able to use this trail but must be kept on leash. Likewise, camping is primitive. We arrived at the dam and there was no spots to fish. Before heading out, check with the Boulder District to make sure conditions are safe and it’s open. In the winter, some people go ice-skating here, but it’s done at your own risk. You may very well be the only camper here. South Boulder Creek flows out of the 340 foot-high dam. It is reported that this is not good for RVs. The lake, free and open year round, has 10.9 miles of shoreline. report. Twin Sisters Peaks (not the ones on the edge of RMNP) Ivie Reservoir in Voss is rated 0.0 of 10 at Campground Reviews. The small creek runs noisily in spring, forming small, picturesque waterfalls and cascades finally ending at the far northwestern tip of Gross Reservoir. … Gross is fed by South Boulder Creek. share. And only allowed on the west side of the lake in the Roosevelt National Forest. South Boulder Creek flows out of the 340 foot high dam. And the water is frigid. Boating and Floating. 27 reviews. Before you set out on a camp-cation to Gross Reservoir, there are some things you need to know. The Rocky Mountains are open and an unmatched alpine paradise. I read some posts by guys on a fishing forum who said it was pretty crazy, then pointed out that they have a stock rav4. The reservoir receives water from the western side of the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel. Gross Reservoir is managed by Denver Water. Pete August 25th, 2011, 10:37 PM #2. cfr. Talk to a Park Ranger. The loops are the Arapahoe, Cherokee, and Chief Ouray. Nederland. There are no RV hookups. The Arapaho and Roosevelt National Forests and Pawnee National Grassland is located in north central Colorado. There is no access from the east side (on Lake Shore Drive), no matter what Google Maps insists. Take Magnolia to Colo. 68 and take that to Forest Service Road 359. Take the North Point picnic area to get to the reservoir. Named for Denver Water former Chief Engineer Dwight D. Gross, the reservoir was completed in 1954. Going for a horse ride at close by Rocky Mountain Riding for the Disabled is always a fun thing to do. But it’s primitive. In October most seasonal mountain passes close up, limiting traffic to the main routes. The phone number for Gross Reservoir is (303) 541-2500. To make reservations for any of the group loops only, please contact the Campground Office at 303-693-3957. Ivie Reservoir in Voss, Texas: 0 reviews, 0 photos, & 0 tips from fellow RVers. The appearance of hyperlinks does not constitute endorsement by the U.S. Army of the Web site or the information, products or services contained therein. It may be appropriate for kids. We still had fun. Because of COVID-19, please be aware of special guidelines for inspections in 2020.. There are additional walk in sites as well bringing the number to 31. Will it be a Jeep day or a Dodge day (I'd rather take the big truck). The most frequently asked questions about recreation and potential changes during the Gross Reservoir Expansion Project have been compiled into an easy to … If you need fishing tackle, or are looking for a fishing guide or fishing charter please visit Tackle, Guides, Charters Gross Res is a stunning alpine body of water that is open to the public for free. save. You can reach the reservoir two ways: the first is to drive up Baseline until it turns into Flagstaff Road, follow Flagstaff until you reach the Gross Reservoir Road, this will take you to the dam. Drinking water is available at South Fork Campground ½ mile away. GPS: 39.950527, -105.386978. Visitation details: Gross Reservoir is open year-round sunrise to sunset, but specific activities have limited windows. Public - Forest Service (Unofficial) 303-541-2500. The reservoir is water storage and also regulates water flow below the Continental Divide. 4 miles Magnolia Ridge - Nederland, Colorado. If you want to get in the water, you have to stay on the water, in a non-motorized boat. First, it’s in Boulder County, about 40 minutes up Flagstaff Road from downtown Boulder. There may be additional closures when construction starts (see below). Winiger Ridge is known primarily as a dispersed camping area but there are some fun trails with nice views of the foothills as well as Indian Peaks/James Peak Wilderness. Dispersed camping at the area will be affected through Aug. 16. The cold-water reservoir has 440 acres of surface area, some that stretch out into isolated “fingers.” The lake itself gets deep (300 feet). They can be contacted via phone at (303) 541-2500 for pricing, directions, reservations and more. Photo by Michael Swadener. The reservoir was named after Denver Water’s former chief engineer Dwight D. Gross. If you have passed Last Stand Tavern on the left or the fire station on the right you have gone too far. This area has about 20 campsites scattered throughout the trees. It would raise the level of the dam by 131 feet, making it the tallest dam in the state (as well as the largest public works project in Boulder County history). Gross Reservoir, located in Boulder County, Colorado, is owned and operated by Denver Water.Completed in 1954, the reservoir has a surface area of 440 acres, and the spillway sits at 7,225 feet elevation. Denver Water wants to raise the dam at Gross Reservoir More From KMGH Denver, CO UP NEXT. Carry-on boating has allowed Gross to become a frequent fishing destination for Front Range anglers. Rifleman Phillips Campground sur le site Mapcarta, la carte libre. Large fire pit and a dozen or so tent spots on a rocky hill on the North side of Magnolia Road. Whether you’re fly fishing, spinning, baitcasting or trolling your chances of getting a bite here are good. Aerial video of Gross Reservoir near Boulder, Colorado. Gross Reservoir was completed in 1954 and named for Denver Water former Chief Engineer Dwight D. Gross. Find A Campground. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. 50% Upvoted. Four picnic areas—North Shore, South Shore, Windy Point, and Miramonte—on the east side of the reservoir have tables, restrooms, and … Camping is free and there are no reservations. Camping.org is a participant in the Amazon affiliate Advertising Program. The trail offers a number of activity options and is accessible year-round. Gross Reservoir, tucked in a scenic canyon, is our favorite secret camping spot close to home — so good that we almost didn’t share. This is a rugged spot for tents, but make sure you’re in the right spots. The west side is closed late fall through early spring. Named for Denver Water former Chief Engineer Dwight D. Gross, the reservoir was completed in 1954. Paddling can be challenging here due to the wind spilling off the Continental Divide. The appearance of hyperlinks does not constitute endorsement by the U.S. Army of the Web site or the information, products or services contained therein. Gross Reservoir, located in Boulder County, Colorado, is owned and operated by Denver Water. Find a place to camp in Grand Teton. https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/colorado/gross-reservoir There are 6-15 campsites at this location. reservoir resident robbery tidal waters use class use ii acquisitions ... camping capacity capital budget capital expenses capital infrastructure ... gross domestic product … Turn left (west) on Highway 72 toward Pinecliffe to County Road 77/Gross Dam Road. If You Didn’t Know About These 10 Swimming Holes In Maryland, You’ve Been Missing Out. Gross Reservoir was finished in the mid-1950s. That’s the side you want to keep in mind for camping. Lodging. Stand-up paddleboarding is OK. Non-motorized boats (like canoes and kayaks) are permitted in late May through the end of September, sunrise to sunset. Directions: Gross Reservoir lies in the foothills above Boulder Colorado. Length 5.2 miElevation gain 980 ftRoute type Out & back Are tubes allowed on the water for floating not swimming? This campsite is everything. Leave your sailboat, trailer-hitched boat and motor boat at home. You can get through there (we did it yesterday after confirming with the ranger that it’s legal). It’s lying. to camp in the Boulder area; there are no actual campgrounds the city limits. Padgitt Park - O.H. The reservoir is remote and has limited facilities, so come prepared. Address: Forest Service Road 359 Nederland, CO 80466, Website: http://www.fs.usda.gov/main/arp/home. Terry Stonich Mention Gross Reservoir to a longtime local and the response might be, “I didn’t know you could SUP there.” Well, you can—and it’s a dream. Carry-on boating has allowed Gross to become a frequent fishing destination for Front Range anglers. If you purchase a product through one of them Camping.org will receive a commission at no additional cost to you. Land to the west of the lake is part of the Roosevelt … 3 photos. 0 comments. General Information: Gross Reservoir (440 surface acres) is a storage reservoir owned and operated by Denver Water. You'll meet a lot of folks from Eldorado Springs here, and everybody loves Dugan Park. Gross Reservoir is about an hour outside of Boulder and is home to great dispersed camping, numerous hiking trails, and a small amount of climbing. Find a Free Campsite. A fun network of forest roads northwest of Gross Reservoir. Order Online Tickets Tickets See Availability Directions {{::location.tagLine.value.text}} Sponsored Topics. Gross Reservoir Dispersed has 26 total sites, all of which are suitable for RVs. Completed in 1954, the reservoir has a surface area of 440 acres, and the spillway sits at 7,225 feet elevation. Please try again later. Fun scrambling up this gully. In 1929, Mr. Timberlake Campground. This page contains affiliate links. View past issues here. It was built for water storage and as a regulating facility for waters from the Western Slope transferred through the Moffat Tunnel. Gross Reservoir is a 5.2 mile moderately trafficked out and back trail located near Boulder, Colorado that features a lake and is rated as moderate. Construction and confusing directions had us all over the place. Winiger Ridge is the dominant landscape feature on Gross Reservoir's western shores. Check to see if there’s a fire ban ahead of time or bring a propane stove as a backup. It can get really windy here, and the sharp wind plus icy conditions can be rough. Gross Reservoir lies in the foothills above Boulder Colorado. BOULDER, Colo. (July 31, 2019) Fuels reduction work will begin on Aug. 5 in the Gross Reservoir Designated Camping Area on the Boulder Ranger District. The col… These spots can only be reached by hiking, biking or aggressive high clearance, 4-wheel-drive vehicle. This was a pure chance encounter, and one worth making! Gross reservoir. The second is to head up Boulder Canyon until you turn onto Magnolia Road. Gross Reservoir is a reservoir located just 3.1 miles from Coal Creek, in Boulder County, in the state of Colorado, United States, near Lake Shore Park, CO. Fishermen will find a variety of fish including rainbow trout, cutthroat trout, lake trout, sockeye salmon and splake here. Winiger Ridge is known primarily as a dispersed camping area but there are some fun trails with nice views of the foothills as well as Indian Peaks/James Peak Wilderness. Water access: No swimming, diving, wading or otherwise splashing. This side of the lake is for day use only. Gross Reservoir was completed in 1954 and named for Denver Water former Chief Engineer Dwight D. Gross. It serves as a combination storage and regulating facility for water that flows under the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel. The note above on getting in from Lake Shore Drive is not totally accurate. Be the first to share what you think! Rough roads and orange cones have some of the roads blocked off, which were our directions to follow. We recognize that Gross Reservoir is a popular recreation area and over the years have talked with many visitors and recreators at Gross Reservoir. There are three group camping loops available to rent. To find Gross Reservoir enter the 39.948044 latitude, and -105.358047 longitude coordinates into your GPS device or smart phone. You must currently keep fires in grills and fire grates. The Forsythe Canyon Trailhead provides parking for year-round access. Boating: All watercraft that is trailered, and gas, diesel and electric-powered will need to be inspected for aquatic nuisance species at the boat ramps. Provide $2 million towards aquatic habitat improvements on the Upper Colorado River. You can camp from Memorial Day until the first snowfall; campsites are closed seasonally. Anglers can expect to catch rainbow trout, brown trout, lake trout, splake, kokanee salmon and tiger muskie. Hendrik vd Merwe says: August 15, 2018 at 2:31 am. The intersection has the CCCIA Hall and United Power offices. After approximately 8 miles, you encounter the upper overlook of Gross Reservoir. Rifleman Phillips Campground avec une carte intéractive et des itinéraires. Reviews (303) 541-2500 Website. Get Directions. . Environmental Commitments. You will need a high-clearance vehicle to get access to this area via a bumpy dirt road on the west side. To make reservations for individual campsites, please call 1-800-244-5613. You can use Latitude: 39.94857110 Longitude: -105.36911870 coordinates in your GPS. In Sports & Outdoors by Aimee HeckelSeptember 5, 20183 Comments. Gross Res is a stunning alpine body of water that is open to the public for free. It’s one of the. Storm over Indian Peaks. Gross Reservoir is located at Forest Service Road 359 , Nederland, CO 80466, The website (URL) for Gross Reservoir is http://www.fs.usda.gov/main/arp/home. First, it’s in Boulder County, about 40 minutes up Flagstaff Road from downtown Boulder. Photos of Gross Reservoir - 7. About Gross Reservoir. The days are long and the temperatures are HOT during a typical Maryland summer, and we all need ways to stay cool. The best places to fish are below the dam, near the inlet and within the body of water. This definitely is worth the stop to take in the views. Gross Reservoir Forest Service Rd 359, Nederland, CO 80466, USA +1 303-541-2500 ... Be aware that you can’t swim in the reservoir, only paddle board, canoe, etc. Second, it’s a peaceful hidden gem with minimal traffic. Just take Flagstaff Road west until it turns into eastern Gross Dam Road. Gross Reservoir, named after Denver Water former Chief Engineer Dwight D. Gross, was completed in 1954 and doubles as a water source for Colorado front range communities and a great nearby recreation area. hide. Add Your Photos. Log in or sign up to leave a comment Log In Sign Up. Find restrooms, parking and sheltered picnic tables on the east side of the water. You can also fish off much of the shore. The reservoir receives water from the western side of the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel. Standing 340 feet above the South Boulder Creek streambed, Gross Dam contains some 627,559 cubic yards of concrete. (There was a small wildfire near the reservoir in June. For those wanting to have a more direct experience, turn left from the overlook and you can follow a dirt road for a few miles to reach the water's edge at one of two locations. Good portions of Gross’s shoreline is also accessible to … Enlarging Gross Reservoir would not help address this issue in any way. Dispersed camping at the area will be affected through Aug. 16. The reservoir, formed by an impressive, 340-foot-high concrete dam on the creek, is nestled into the foothills. Technical Rating. Anyone know if Gross reservoir is still open for camping? Completed in 1954, the reservoir has a surface area of 440 acres, and the spillway sits at 7,225 feet elevation.The reservoir receives water from the western side of the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel. Explore hikes throughout Grand Teton National Park. View the current issue here. It wasn’t until recently that it opened up for public paddling. There are 11 non-electric sites that will accommodate tents, trailers and RVs. Gross Reservoir is about an hour outside of Boulder and is home to great dispersed camping, numerous hiking trails, and a small amount of climbing. Even on camp-crazy days like Memorial Day weekend, the trailhead’s rarely busy, making it one of the best places to visit in Boulder. Nice campsites – All full when we went on a mission to scope it out on Friday, 8/2/19. Fishing: The Colorado Division of Wildlife stocks the reservoir with cold-water fish (rainbow trout, brown trout, lake trout, splake, kokanee salmon and tiger muskie). The Gross Reservoir area. Gross Reservoir Gross Reservoir, located in Boulder County, Colorado, is owned and operated by Denver Water.Completed in 1954, the reservoir has a surface area of 440 acres, and the spillway sits at 7,225 feet elevation.The reservoir receives water from the western side of the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel. As winter conditions approach to stay. Restrooms and picnic facilities, on site, with primitive camping on West Bank, gas, lodging and restaurants within 6 miles of reservoir in Coal Creek. Gross gave the part of the Camp that extends from Route 60 N. to upper Cassadaga Lake to the Lake Shore Council Boy Scouts with the provision that if the Boy Scouts no longer wanted the property, it was to go to the Boys and Girls of Chautauqua County. The coordinates that you can use in navigation applications to get to find Gross Reservoir Boat Launch quickly are 39.9366503 ,-105.3729435 Get Directions Customer Ratings and Reviews. Yes, you can camp. Best Time. The lake is big enough that it’s easy to escape from other users. Summer - Fall. The road in is 4x4. Directions: From Boulder, it’s easy. It was ridiculously windy when I woke up after sleeping at Gross Reservoir so I decided to take a vid to show the wind and just how beautiful the area was. They’re all marked with a number and have a fire ring, although fires may not be permitted. Padgitt Park - O.H. Another route where I linked some trails with off-trail sections. Camping near gross lake colorado. The reservoir is big enough that you can likely eat in privacy. It was built for water storage and as a regulating facility for waters from the Western Slope transferred through the Moffat Tunnel. I'm looking to get the family up to do some fishing and scope out some camping spots. It’s pretty spectacular, with the small waterfall, wildflowers, the stream, canyon and ending with the alpine water. Trail/Campground Map; Your Ad Here; Products; Photography; Friday, August 5, 2011. Paddle on Jenny, String, Leigh, or Jackson Lake. Here are some of the ways you can use Gross Reservoir. The water here comes from the western slope. Fuels Mitigation Work Near Gross Reservoir Designated Camping Area Begins Aug. 5. Gross Reservoir is open June-September. on left, follow signs to … This is a rugged spot for tents, but make sure you’re in the right spots. to Flagstaff Rd., continue climbing for 9 miles to Gross Dam Rd. Total Miles 2. 1 to 2 Hours. Gross Reservoir - Nederland, Colorado. Gross boasts 10 to 14 miles of shoreline (depending on who you ask). Gross is fed by South Boulder Creek. Gross Reservoir is managed by Denver Water. Picnicking: Gross Reservoir has four different picnic areas: North Shore, South Shore, Miramonte and Windy Point. Beautiful lake. Shore angling and limited boat access (see regulations) are allowed. Camping in this area is restricted to the designated campsites along National Forest System Road 359. Construction is expected to be done around 2025. BOULDER, Colo. (July 31, 2019) Fuels reduction work will begin on Aug. 5 in the Gross Reservoir Designated Camping Area on the Boulder Ranger District. 11 Fun Stocking Stuffers From McGuckin Hardware, 5 Boulder County Spots Slinging Santa-Approved Cocktails, The Best Holiday Gifts from Boulder Artists and Makers, Longmont’s Absolute Vinyl Is So Much More Than A Record Shop, Winter Activities To Try If You Don’t Ski, Order Thanksgiving Dinner From These Boulder Restaurants, Cold-Weather Craft Beers To Try Right Now, What’s Happening with the Boulder Food Scene, Gross Reservoir: Boulder’s Hidden Gem Where You Can Camp, This campsite is everything. Explore Gross Reservoir Dispersed, a facility located near Nederland in the Boulder County region in Colorado. 7,800' Duration. The forests and grassland encompasses 1.5 million acres and extends north to the Wyoming border, south of Interstate 70 to Mount Evans, west across the Continental Divide to the Williams Fork area and includes short grass prairie east of I-25. No cause was released.). The west side is managed by the Roosevelt National Forest’s Boulder District. The reservoir is managed by the Baker Dam Reservoir Association. best. Please visit their website for regulations and additional information. You lucky dog. Built in 1953 at the foot of the towering Pine Valley Mountains, the reservoir area offers slightly cooler temperatures and a quick getaway from St. George and other lower elevation communities. After approximately 8 miles, you encounter the upper overlook of Gross Reservoir. 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Where I linked some trails with off-trail sections a stunning alpine body gross reservoir campground! Flows under the Continental Divide icy conditions can be contacted via phone at ( 303 541-2500! Sailboat, trailer-hitched boat and motor boat at home our favorite Point of interest in Boulder Engineer Dwight Gross... Road 77/Gross dam Road are open and an unmatched alpine paradise explore Gross Reservoir is perched at feet. Reservoir Designated camping area Begins Aug. 5 Outdoors by Aimee HeckelSeptember 5, 2011 traffic the. Roads blocked off, which were our directions to follow: -105.36911870 coordinates your. Lies in the Amazon affiliate Advertising Program some trails with off-trail sections best spots located along the South Boulder inlet. To raise the dam, near the Reservoir is owned and operated by Denver water former Engineer! August 25th, 2011, 10:37 gross reservoir campground # 2. cfr route where I linked trails. Ways to stay on the east side of the 340 foot-high dam camp the. Recently that it ’ s a project to expand the Reservoir Boulder Creek flows out of lake. Aware of special guidelines for inspections in 2020 find Gross Reservoir How 's the 4wd Road into foothills... Ring, although fires may not be permitted take Magnolia to Colo. 68 and take that to Forest Road! North Point picnic area to get in the winter when conditions permit Rd., continue climbing for miles. And lots of hiking trails cell phone coverage and confusing directions had us all the. Has allowed Gross to become a frequent fishing destination for Front Range anglers in or up. Motor boat at home of getting a bite here are good great camping, hiking, and bouldering ( ). We saw a number of car-based SUVs that made it in that way without trouble 77/Gross dam.. And confusing directions had us all over the years have talked with many visitors and recreators Gross... Out of the Continental Divide through the Moffat Tunnel can you have gone too far,...