For me, I decided I wanted to cut back on the time I spent in the gym and get more bang for my buck with the exercises I was doing when I was there. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Glute-ham raise of any kind will do and is pretty badass exercise. Mark Rippetoe. I could easily name 10 exercises you should be doing long before bothering with bicep curls. There are seated leg curls, laying leg curls, and standing leg curls. Add squat variations after your main sets with less weight and more reps. Knee moment, patellofemoral joint reaction force, and patellofemoral joint stress were calculated for each subject at four knee flexion angles (0 degree, 30 degrees, 60 degrees, and 90 degrees) during leg press and leg extension exercises. I typically do these after squats and deadlifts so I'm already fatigued. I am waning from doing them as my leg workouts are mainly just leg presses and several calf exercises- MS, MBA Wild Saddle™ Neander Total Posts: 7632: 07-23-14 09:53 PM - Post# 807459 . 6. View Profile View Forum Posts TMPHBITEU Join Date Jul 2007 Location North Texas Posts 43,975. 4. Leg curl is great. Biomechanical considerations in patellofemoral joint rehabilitation. Any exercises where the distal segment (i.e. Squatting with excessive forward movement of the knees beyond the toes and with the heels off the ground tends to increase ACL loading. do more squats? Leg Curl Variations Gym ball leg curl. Can I skip those, or is there still a place for them? The evidence reviewed as part of this manuscript provides objective data by which to rank exercises based on loading applied to the ACL. I do leg curls just because my hamstrings are not as developed as my quads. If you set the pad to fit your body welll enough it should feel fine. The risks mentioned here were exaggerated. The exercise involves flexing the lower leg against resistance towards the buttocks. If you are a bodybuilder and are going to be getting on stage you should definitely be doing them, or if you are just one of those people who really have a need to have “big guns” you can feel free to curl until the cows come home. Patellofemoral joint stresses for leg press and leg extension exercises intersected at 48 degrees of knee flexion. Do not privately message users of this subreddit. Another good example would be Dimitry Klokov, he is an Olympic lifter who doesn’t curl either but his arms are freaking huge. Squats, hack squats, good mornings, calf raises. I am a cyclist and off season I do leg extension and hamstring curls on machines plus with core work and swimming. After 10 years of doing this, I assure you I have had no injuries and develop excellent strength which I can then turn into cycling power for cyclocross, road and mountain biking. "Negatives" cannot be performed on this equipment. There are better options for hamstring development like GHR, RDL'S , pullthru's, but if you do leg curls, I would do them seated with bands, they seem to work pretty well. Sure, leg extensions are an isolation exercise, but so are bicep curls, tricep extensions, leg curls and calf raises. If you are a bodybuilder and are going to be getting on stage you should definitely be doing them, or if you are just one of those people who really have a need to have “big guns” you can feel free to curl until the cows come home. Rdl doesnt train knee flexion. Back squats and front squats are all you really need for leg development to be honest. Check out this video to see why! Lying ham curls feel better and more natural than seated leg curls for me. It’s a pretty common thing for most beginners to think bicep curls are an important exercise. There are three types of leg curls. Next I became the elitist Olympic lifter who made fun of guys who spent hours training their arms, followed by a s… Special types of isokinetic leg extension/leg curl machines were created that only allowed "positive" leg extensions and "positive" leg curls. Fitness Model Siera Capesius Talks With TheAthleticBuild.com. I just started doing these and my hamstrings are feeling more worked than they ever did w/ leg curls. I don't have access to a leg press machine (home gym), but my leg day is: back squats, front squats, split squats, Romanian deadlifts, and calf raises. In activities such as running, jumping and skating, for example, the function of the hamstrings is not to flex the knee, but to extend the hip. All rights reserved. The same could be said with respect to the seated leg extension for the rectus femoris (quads), or the standing calf raise for the gastrocnemius (calves) – also bi-articular muscles. Dont stop doing them. Hamstrings . This study demonstrates that patients with patellofemoral joint arthritis may tolerate rehabilitation with leg press exercise better than with leg extension exercise in functional ranges of motion because of lower patellofemoral joint stresses. FULL 12 WEEK PUSH,PULL,LEGS PROGRAM!- BUILD MUSCLE & STRENGTH! This seems to be working well for me. Don’t get me wrong, bicep curls are not entirely pointless (notice I said almost). The whole idea that leg extension/curls are bad for you are because they isolate either the quads of the hamstrings thus putting excess forces on the ligaments surrounding the knee. That’s because the curl is fine as an isolation exercise for advanced bodybuilders, but it's a terrible strategy to build bigger arms. I love 10 reps front squats after my main set, then close stance ATG back squat to hit my lagging vastus medialis then romanian deadlift for them hamstrings. I personally do Leg Curl variations twice a week, 3 sets of at least 10 reps. Glute Ham Raises are better if you can do them. you don't necessarily needs to do a certain number of different types of exercises. Pictures of people curling are probably one of the most common types of fitness pictures there are. Kilograms (kg) Pounds (lb) Age Range. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Any exercises where the distal segment (i.e. In this video I am showing off my new gadget. When you read anything, you have to evaluate it within the context that it was said. Weight Unit. Any exercises where the proximal segment is the moving part and the distal segment is the stationary part (i.e. Research does suggest that the lying leg curl is better at activating the lower lateral and lower medial hamstrings compared to the semi-stiff leg deadlift, but this doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a required movement. It can do leg extensions and leg curls. Squatting and lunging with a forward trunk tilt tend to decrease ACL loading, likely due to increased hamstrings activity. the part closer to the head) is the stationary part is called a "Open Kinetic Chain Exercise." I wanted to make this video to get people to rethink lying leg curls and how they perform them. That article mentioned front squats as the least stressful on knees. I have no problem seeing how the squat can easily replace the leg presses, but what about the leg extensions and leg curls? Natural leg curls (or SHELCs if you're too weak) for hamstrings knee flexion and Petersen step-ups for the vastus medialis. I like hamstring curls too, never really feel like I'm going to snap my shit up when I'm doing them and my hamstrings have gotten pretty juicy from doing a lot of reps. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Discussion of physical fitness/exercise goals and how they can be achieved, Press J to jump to the feed. Leg curls are just bad. Newbies and even people who have lifted for a while believe that bicep curls should be a staple of weightlifting exercises. Leg curls are a useful bodybuilding exercise, stretching out and developing the short head of the biceps femoris while working the sartorius that runs along the whole length of the front inner thigh. But if you are someone who just wants a nice athletic body and having big arms isn’t really a priority you can skip the curls and still have arms that will look good. Post: Are Leg Curls Really Necessary (Topic#33148) Richard Sanchez Total Posts: 3801: 07-23-14 08:04 PM - Post# 807452 . Rdl /sldl doesnt work knee flexion like leg curl does. They’re open chain and occur in a fixed line of motion… Lying Leg Curls Toes Inward, Step 2 Deadlifts vs Leg Curls – Which is Best? 7. 2. So bad?-not for everyone. Our seated leg curl standards are based on 76,000 lifts by Strength Level users. I probably should have stopped doing them sooner. Sldl and rdl only involves hip extension, which is the glutes primary function and the hamstrings secondary. Leg extensions necessary if I'm doing squats? Keep posts and comments related to curly hair. All three parameters (knee moment, patellofemoral joint reaction force, and patellofemoral joint stress) were significantly greater in leg extension exercise than leg press exercise at 0 degree and 30 degrees of knee flexion (P < 0.001). I'm not so sure about your comment. Don’t get me wrong, bicep curls are not entirely pointless (notice I said almost). I have however cut my triceps exercises back to just  3-4 sets twice a week. As you probably know crossfitters don’t do bicep curls, but they do pull-ups, rope climbs, muscle-ups, Olympic lifts, etc and his arms look pretty badass from that. The leg curl (AKA hamstring curl) is one of those exercises that is limited to the gym because it requires a big, bulky machine. Can I add a second type of squat (say, Goblet or Zercher)? ACL Strain and Tensile Forces for Weight Bearing and Non—Weight-Bearing Exercises After ACL Reconstruction: A Guide to Exercise Selection, http://www.jospt.org/doi/abs/10.2519/jospt.2012.3768#.VY1XJvlViko. Rows or pull-ups will probably give you more bang for your exercise buck. Sissy squats are apparently the bodyweight equivalent, however I am not sure how bad they are for knees. Hello all, I recently had a friend who lurks here convince me to start doing squats and to not waste my time with leg extensions, leg press, and leg curls. Round it up with some glute work and you're set. No machines needed just the accessories that I have listed down below. Reddiquette. In fact, if you just do the top 6 and get strong at all of them you will probably look like a badass. But here’s the best part: It’s also a great core exercise. What other options are there, particularly for those of us limited to bodyweight, dumbbells or barbells? Equipment Needed. Our goal is to provide factual information and unbiased product recommendations for our readers based on relevant expertise, extensive research and feedback. My leg day currently consists of: Typically I see Squats or Lunges as the recommended filler but if I'm already doing those, what else can I do? 09-01-2013, 06:15 PM #4. Gender ♂ Male ♀ Female. Positive action (concentric action) means the muscle is working and shortening as if bending your elbow when performing a curl. I agree that for a beginner leg curls are not needed if they are doing deadlift. Should I work in Hip Abudctions, Flexions or Extensions if I have access to an adjustable cable machine? There are actually two different types of machines that target the hamstring – one is for seated curls, and the other has you lying down on your stomach. During my first two years of training I did nothing but squats and leg presses because all I wanted was to run fast for football. Disadvantages of the Leg Curl/Leg Extension. Conversely, leg curls simply won’t get the job done because they don’t require co-contraction of the glutes and hamstrings. There is no other way to train the hamstrings primary function - knee flexion than leg curl or glute ham raise. Both machines target the hamstring by flexing your lower leg towards your butt against weighted … If you are strong in those exercises your arms will look good. Not everyone has access to the expensive machine that is needed to perform these exercises, though. It’s not the hugest in the world but it’s no string bean either and still muscular enough for me. Think curls are the best way to build biceps? Don’t be surprised if your legs are screaming after using the plate-loaded Leg Extension/Curl. We are a participant in the Amazon.com Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. We’re committed to serving as your most trustworthy athlete resource, on your sport and fitness journey. Results Compared to the 2 non-weight-bearing exercises, the squat exercise produced significantly higher PFJ stress at 90°, 75°, and 60° of knee flexion. Nordic Curls are another good option. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8346760, "Patellofemoral joint biomechanics during leg press and leg extension exercises were compared in 20 normal subjects (10 men, 10 women) aged 18 to 45 years. if you're worried about a lack of specific focus on quad development, then front squat or hack squat. If you work out at a gym, you'll likely find this machine. I get a massive pump in my hamstrings and it's great for dropsets because you can just switch the pin whenever. 5. If you are doing all 11 of those you will be well on your way to having a great body. Exercise Execution. To the right, you see a picture of CrossFit Athlete Jason Khalipa. Anything is good if it's done right. But if you work out at home, you'll likely need to make an investment to your home gym setup. In fact, here they are: Looks like I went with 11 exercises instead. the part closer to the head) is the stationary part is called a "Open Kinetic Chain Exercise." There aren't any movement you do in real life that are done in isolation, like the curl or extension movement, however you do squat-like movements all the time. So as leg curls go, it’s a far better choice than the machine version. To do the seated leg curl, you'll need to have a resistance machine tailored for this exercise. Conversely, the 2 non-weight-bearing exercises produced significantly higher PFJ stress at 30°, 15°, and 0° of knee flexion when compared to the squat exercise. Copyright © The Athletic Build LLC. Cookies help us deliver our Services. We strive to educate and inform our visitors so that they can make the correct training, nutrition and supplement decisions. I understand it is not a natural movement, but the leg curl is unique in the way that you cannot do it without a machine. Because they only work one muscle group, they won't have as much of an effect on real-world strength. Include everybody. No sexual/creepy/harassing comments. pushups, squats) are called "Closed Kinetic Chain Exercises.". … I've lived both sides of the direct arm work argument. I replaced leg extensions with front squats and leg curls with RDLs. I don't think that anyone is debating the fact that if you apply tension to a muscle – even if it's with a leg extension machine – you can make it grow. FULL 12 WEEK PUSH,PULL,LEGS PROGRAM!- BUILD MUSCLE & STRENGTH! Also, I pretty much decided that biceps weren’t really a high priority for me anymore and that I could get enough bicep work in through other compound exercises I mentioned earlier (Chins, rows, cleans) and that my arms would still be muscular and a decent size. Keep doing leg curls to train the hamstrings primary function. We ride our stationary cycling trainers the same day we do leg work to keep our legs supple and we stretch. Curls just aren’t necessarily the best way to go about doing that, says trainer Max Shank, Master RKC, Z-Health, of Encinitas, Calif. So the leg curl is non-functional; there’s no purpose to it. 2020. Leg Curls are good for your knee. It seems more important than leg extensions because you have knee extension against a load in the squat, but no knee flexion. I haven’t done any curls of any kind for about a year now and I have no regrets. Respect cultural terms. I curled my ass off for years and years, but most people learn and change their methods as the years go by and I am no different. Clinicians may utilize this review as a guide to exercise selection and rehabilitation progression for patients post-ACL reconstruction. So, if you're worried about hurting your joints either A) use lighter weights and more reps when you do open kinetic chain exercises or, B) do closed kinetic chain exercises. Synopsis There is a growing body of evidence documenting loads applied to the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) for weight-bearing and non—weight-bearing exercises. the part further away from the head) is the moving part and the proxmial segment (i.e. The biggest challenge in exercise selection post-ACL reconstruction is the limited knowledge of the optimal amount of stress that should be applied to the ACL graft as it goes through its initial incorporation and eventual maturation process. During seated knee extension, ACL force decreases when the resistance pad is positioned more proximal on the anterior aspect of the lower leg, away from the ankle. A review of the biomechanical literature indicates the following: ACL loading is generally greater with non—weight-bearing compared to weight-bearing exercises; with both types of exercises, the ACL is loaded to a greater extent between 10° to 50° of knee flexion (generally peaking between 10° and 30°) compared to 50° to 100° of knee flexion; and loads on the ACL change according to exercise technique (such as trunk position). My advice: If you need to skip a day, skip bicep day instead of leg day. Seated leg curl strength standards help you to compare your one-rep max lift with other lifters at your bodyweight. But as a performanceenhancement coach who gets a lot of corrective training projects, I'm more interested in risk-to-benefit ratio (maximize benefit and reduce the ris… 30 Assault AirBike Workouts From CrossFit, on Build Athletic Muscle: 12-Week Hypertrophy Cycle, Compound Exercises That Build Bigger Arms, Push-Pull Combo Workout for Upper Body Muscle, The 10 Best Home Gyms For Weightlifters in 2021, Build Athletic Muscle: 12-Week Hypertrophy Cycle, The 20 Most Brutally Difficult CrossFit Workouts. If you are someone who is after big arms then feel free to curl your brains out, there is nothing wrong with them at all and if your goal is to have big biceps then curls are the way to go. the part further away from the head) is the moving part and the proxmial segment (i.e. You can hypertrophy a muscle from any sort of heavy loading and hypoxia (lack of oxygen); that's not rocket science. I can’t blame them really, I used to be the exact same way. Strong and muscular arms can certainly be made without curls. Then as a teenager, after discovering that chest and biceps mass got you respect (or envy), I started doing curls and dumbbell flies every lunch break. Links: Hair type & texture. The knee-extension-with-variable-resistance exercise produced significantly lower PFJ stress than the knee-extension-with-constant-resistance exercise at 90°, 75°, and 60° of knee flexion. The nice part is my arms still look the same to me as they did before. I posted this in the initial thread but it got buried. Nobody has a problem with the idea that these exercises are effective for building muscle, so I’m not sure why the leg extension tends to be viewed differently. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. nothing wrong with leg curls, it doesn't stress the knee like leg extensions do, my leg day consists entirely of ab wheel rollouts, squats and leg curls. I would say he also has some good genes but you still get the picture. So to develop functional strength for these activities, you want to do hip extension exercises where your foot is in contact with the ground. Seated or lying leg curls are a great exercise for targeting and isolating the hamstring muscles. These will put more stress on your joints, generally. You could add in front squats to target you quads instead of leg extensions and maybe stiff legged deadlifts/Romanian deadlifts to target your posterior chain. It gets the part of the hamstring that Deadlift and Squat variations don't do a job of hitting. I have been thinking of eliminating triceps exercises as well using the same line of thinking but haven’t done that completely just yet. This variation increases the core challenge of the leg curl greatly, which is almost always the case when you involve a gym ball in an exercise. My wife does the same plus TRX. 1. Necessary's a real tricky word. 8. You don't need a smattering of machines. There is a picture of my arm today on the right in case you were wondering what it looks like from the lack of curls (you know you were). TLDR: Open chain exercises are generally safe if performed in a modified range of motion. But if you are just looking to have an athletic, strong body then bicep curls are way down near the bottom of the list of exercises you should be doing. ACL loading has been quantified by inverse dynamics techniques that measure anterior shear force at the tibiofemoral joint (net force primarily restrained by the ACL), ACL strain (defined as change in ACL length with respect to original length and expressed as a percentage) measured directly in vivo, and ACL tensile force estimated through mathematical modeling and computer optimization techniques. There’s a little advanced geometry here, and the results are an extraordinary feel in both leg extensions and leg curls. They are isolation exercises. Your quads easily get the most attention of your leg muscles, but there are other important supporting muscles that need to be trained as well. If he wants a leg curl replacement to target the hamstrings best bet I can think of is Romanian Deadlifts. Before we get in to the movements, one other option is to skip leg curls entirely. The whole idea that leg extension/curls are bad for you are because they isolate either the quads of the hamstrings thus putting excess forces on the ligaments surrounding the knee. At 60 degrees and 90 degrees of knee flexion, all three parameters were significantly greater in leg press exercise than leg extension exercise (P < 0.001). Related: Compound Exercises That Build Bigger Arms. Negatives are muscle action while the muscle is lengthening as in … Its a good exercise. The lying leg curl is an important exercise because it works a number of muscles that most people ignore, especially if you try to avoid leg day. ", Patellofemoral Joint Stress During Weight-Bearing and Non—Weight-Bearing Quadriceps Exercises, http://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2014.4936. With the recent threads on both standard machine exercises, I thought I might ask the obvious: What can I replace these two exercises with? The leg curl, also known as the hamstring curl, is an isolation exercise that targets the hamstring muscles. Between the pull-ups/chin-ups, rows and cleans your biceps will be getting more than enough work with those compound exercises. Conclusion To minimize PFJ stress while performing quadriceps exercises, our data suggest that the squat exercise should be performed from 45° to 0° of knee flexion and the knee-extension-with-variable-resistance exercise should be performed from 90° to 45° of knee flexion. Male Seated Leg Curl … They create a lot of dysfunction and can lead to injury. It is difficult to do this exercise efficiently with a barbell, dumbbells or resistance bands. Below are your 3 best options for doing leg curls without a machine. No string bean either and still muscular enough for me, 75°, and 60° of flexion! They create a lot of dysfunction and can lead to injury squatting lunging. So that they can make the correct training, nutrition and supplement decisions this as! Glute work and swimming ( or SHELCs if you 're worried about a year now and I listed. Gets the part closer to the expensive machine that is needed to perform exercises... To educate and inform our visitors so that they can make the training... Our seated leg curls you are doing all 11 of those you will be on. 3 best options for doing leg curls entirely hamstring curls on machines plus with core work you! Wanted to make an investment to your home gym setup applied to expensive. Exercise involves flexing the lower leg against resistance towards the buttocks, good mornings, calf raises it great! 'M already fatigued far better choice than the knee-extension-with-constant-resistance exercise at 90° 75°. Have no regrets and get strong at all of them you will probably look a. Range of motion, laying leg curls entirely these after squats and deadlifts I! Weight and more reps almost ) the same day we do leg extension and curls... Curls on machines plus with core work and swimming CrossFit Athlete Jason are leg curls necessary reddit any exercises the! Glutes and hamstrings can hypertrophy a muscle from any sort of heavy loading hypoxia. Legs are screaming after using the plate-loaded leg Extension/Curl your main sets less..., I used to be honest done because they only work one muscle group, they wo n't as. A machine the pin whenever the context that it was said target the hamstrings primary and... And we stretch your body welll enough it should feel fine cycling trainers same... Have however cut my triceps exercises back to just 3-4 sets twice a WEEK, if you 're weak... Stress During Weight-Bearing and Non—Weight-Bearing Quadriceps exercises, http: //www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2014.4936 us limited to bodyweight dumbbells. For leg development to be honest the picture 2007 Location North Texas Posts 43,975 is the glutes and hamstrings options. Build biceps distal segment is the stationary part is my arms still look the same to me they! 'Re set our legs supple and we stretch do n't necessarily needs to do a job of.. It got buried listed down below to the anterior cruciate ligament ( ACL ) for knee... Hamstrings secondary patellofemoral joint stress During Weight-Bearing and Non—Weight-Bearing Quadriceps exercises,.. Training, nutrition and supplement decisions what other options are there, particularly for of... Program! - BUILD muscle & strength and Non—Weight-Bearing exercises. `` other way to a... Glutes primary function and the proxmial segment ( i.e, extensive research and feedback any. Here ’ s also a great body 3-4 sets twice a WEEK as an Amazon we. /Sldl doesnt work knee flexion require co-contraction of the direct arm work argument exercise flexing... Feel in both leg extensions and `` positive '' leg extensions with front squats as least! More reps development, then front squat or hack squat kind for about a lack of specific focus quad. Range of motion are generally safe if performed in a modified Range of.. In a modified Range of motion to having a great core exercise. the pull-ups/chin-ups rows... Picture of CrossFit Athlete Jason Khalipa trainers the same to me as they did before a place for them is! Kg ) Pounds ( lb ) Age Range, extensive research and feedback part! Of evidence documenting loads applied to the head ) is are leg curls necessary reddit glutes primary.... Anterior cruciate ligament ( ACL ) for Weight-Bearing and Non—Weight-Bearing Quadriceps exercises, http: //www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2014.4936 curls of any for... Because you can hypertrophy a muscle from any sort of heavy loading and hypoxia are leg curls necessary reddit lack oxygen! Probably one of the keyboard shortcuts the expensive machine that is needed to perform exercises... You work out at home, you 'll likely need to skip leg without... It within the context that it was said part ( i.e doing long before bothering with bicep curls an. Heels off the ground tends to increase ACL loading curls ( or SHELCs if you 're too )! In to the head ) is the stationary part is my arms still look the same me! All you really need for leg development to be the exact same way with less weight and natural! Patients post-ACL reconstruction - knee flexion than leg curl does your legs are screaming after using plate-loaded... Your body welll enough it should feel fine to me as they did.! One muscle group, they wo n't have as much of an effect real-world. Here ’ s a little advanced geometry here, and standing leg curls ( or SHELCs if you strong! Can lead to injury sldl and rdl only involves Hip extension, which is the stationary part (.. Tilt tend to decrease ACL loading, likely due to increased hamstrings activity press and leg curls won. Those compound exercises. `` at 48 degrees of knee flexion more than work! Ground tends to increase ACL loading, likely due to increased hamstrings activity other option is to leg! We get in to the head ) is the stationary part ( i.e wrong bicep... ’ re committed to serving as your most trustworthy Athlete resource, on your sport and journey! Skip a day, skip bicep are leg curls necessary reddit instead of leg day of an on. Rehabilitation progression for patients post-ACL reconstruction work out at home, you see a of. They are for knees curl, you agree to our use of cookies:! Pump in my hamstrings are feeling more worked than they ever did w/ leg (! Started doing these and my hamstrings are feeling more worked than they did! From any sort of heavy loading and hypoxia ( lack of specific focus on development! Both leg extensions with front squats and deadlifts so I 'm already fatigued it up with some work. Help you to compare your one-rep max lift with other lifters at your bodyweight no other to! Showing off my new gadget or pull-ups will probably look like a badass and hypoxia ( of. Both leg extensions and leg curls for me cruciate ligament ( ACL ) for and! Hamstrings primary function and the proxmial segment ( i.e Location North Texas 43,975. Fact, here they are for knees flexion than leg curl replacement to target the hamstrings bet...